‘The law should be at the centre of what we do’: Lord Hermer KC AG

‘The mini-pupillage was at Cardiff Chambers. My parents had persuaded me to do it. I had zero interest in being a lawyer, but just to pacify them I agreed to do it. I had never been in a court before. It was a family case. There was cross-examination. It took about five minutes for me to be captivated. I thought: this is what I want to do! I can’t believe they get paid to do this! After that five minutes, there was no turning back. I did the conversion course at Bar school, was called in 1993, obtained my pupillage in Wales and spent three fantastic years there. I saw some brilliant advocacy. I was in court every day – jury trials, family, employment. It was tremendous fun, incredible training, a pivotal period in which my advocacy skills were forged. Once you have done a case before the Barry magistrates, the Supreme Court doesn’t seem so frightening.’

This is the new Attorney General (AG), Lord Hermer KC, born and raised in Cardiff, his father a Conservative councillor, ‘a One Nation Tory’. His mother is ‘more to the left. Dad was a solicitor, one of the youngest to qualify through the then five-year route. I would work in his office during the holidays, delivering letters and covering the switchboard. There were lots of political discussions at home, with Dad being in a minority of one against the rest of us. We all loved talking politics. There was never a cross word uttered to me – unless I had been given a bad school report for not working hard enough! There was an enormous emphasis on education and hard work. It was a loving environment – we were never pushed, only “channelled”.’ He attended his local primary school and comprehensive in Cardiff, spending his last A-level year at a sixth form college. Favourite subjects were English, history and drama. Was it the drama that led him to the Bar? ‘No, it was more the love of arguing. I wanted to be a theatre director and a writer at the time.’

His interest in politics goes back to his pre-teen years, to his support for the anti-apartheid movement. ‘It was a system so fundamentally unjust. It lit a fire in me from a moral perspective.’ He received a traditional Jewish upbringing. ‘I had to go to synagogue and was involved in Jewish groups as a kid and a teenager. That culture has informed my views about right and wrong; about the importance of showing compassion, which has grown over the years; about the need to repair the world in terms of social justice. I am an atheist now, but I still follow the cultural traditions I learned at home, around for example the lighting of candles on Friday evenings.’

Next was Manchester University, where he studied history and politics. ‘History tells us why and how we got here; it explains structures and power relationships. Politics tells us about the contemporary world. I loved the course. I became involved in the students’ union and later got myself elected to the National Executive of the NUS. But around this time my parents were getting worried. I was coming to the end of my time at university, the RSC weren’t calling for me, and I wasn’t doing much drama anyway. Dad had never said don’t do drama, though I know it did give him sleepless nights.’ This was the background to his being ‘channelled’ into that mini-pupillage.

Hermer moved from Cardiff to London to Doughty Street Chambers (a fellow tenant, one Keir Starmer, led him in many cases), took silk in 2009 and joined Matrix Chambers in 2012, where he later became head. He enjoyed a high-profile practice in international law, public law and national security. He took many cases against the government, the armed forces and the police. Clients included controversial individuals such as Gerry Adams and Shamima Begum but also the Grenfell Tower claimants. He was appointed to the Task Force on Accountability for Crimes Committed in Ukraine following the Russian full-scale invasion and spent four years as a Deputy High Court Judge.

‘I tried to do my best to ensure that whatever my views everybody felt they were getting a fair hearing. I really enjoyed writing judgments – a rare opportunity to craft something. In my practice I never courted cases for their controversial nature or for political reasons, but I was lucky that interesting cases came to me. The ethos of the Bar is important to me. I am not a campaigner who became a lawyer – I have always been a lawyer.’

He never acted in a case for the government. Might this affect the way he approaches the job of AG? ‘Over the many years I have got to know lots of the people who work for government. I have always thought it important to have good relationships with my opponents, and it has paid off now that I am here. I have been involved in much strategic litigation over the years and am used to dealing with matters that aren’t pure law. My cases have raised important principles, for example when you can detain people, what national security requires, what happens when we are at war – legally fascinating areas where the courts have not trodden before. A core part of the AG’s job isn’t political but it’s about giving the best legal advice to government. I have got lots of help around me, including from Sarah Sackman KC [Solicitor General], government lawyers and the wider legal profession, who have all been very supportive. I draw on their expertise, but I am comfortable with the fact that the buck stops with me. My job is to speak truth unto power. Government lawyers know that when they do I have their backs.’

How did he react when he was asked to become AG? ‘It was unreal. I had never spent a life dreaming of being a politician.’ We consider something he once said in an interview in 2020, namely that a law which he would want to enact would be ‘the European Union (Please Can We Come Back) Act’. ‘That proves I never had political intentions! I had been inside Parliament only three or four times up till then. I felt daunted professionally and personally. I have never had any social media account. I always tried to go under the radar. I would enter court buildings through the back entrance. I discussed the offer first with my wife. We considered all the downsides. At the time I was working three days a week at home. Those days are truly gone. But I was brought up to believe in public service. This truly is the honour of my life – a huge privilege.’

And he has been busy in his first months: delivering a major speech on the rule of law, supporting the Home Secretary in reforms to the system of police accountability, trips to Ukraine, the Middle East, New York (where he advocated reform of the UN Security Council), Liverpool (where he donated books to a library damaged in the riots), Northern Ireland, Edinburgh; plus advice on many high profile issues which by convention cannot be discussed. ‘The job is difficult, but absolutely what I signed up for. I tend not to get stressed. I feel every bit as chirpy in month five as on day five. A wide part of the job is outward-facing, getting the message out internationally and to the public here.’ He clearly enjoys working with his political colleagues. ‘We are pretty collegiate. My opinion of politicians has shot up. They are really decent people!’

At the time of our interview he had just handled his first Oral Questions in the Lords. ‘I like being here. I quickly got into focus. Parliament was never my dream, but now it is. I sit on the front bench and think of all the illustrious people who have sat in my place. Imposter syndrome from this boy from Cardiff, perhaps? A similar feeling to when I first appeared in the Supreme Court.’ His maiden speech was back in July. ‘I was given the topic of the removal of hereditary peers from the Lords – a tough brief, but one with which I absolutely agree.

‘When I arrived in post I was concerned at the AG’s guidance on legal risk. It wasn’t driving standards in the right direction. I revised it with the Treasury Solicitor and other legal heads. I am determined that the law should be at the centre of what we do. Governments who play fast and loose with the law get into real trouble. The rule of law requires that we are all governed equally by the same set of rules, rules that reflect human dignity. Every day we have to decide on a range of foreign policy and domestic issues that are politically sensitive. Certain outcomes are more uncomfortable than others. Government has tended to work on the basis that it can favour choices if they are legally arguable, but in most scenarios I don’t want the legality of government action to be calibrated in accordance with an argument that might be poor but wouldn’t get counsel struck off. We must be satisfied that the action is lawful.’ In ‘most scenarios’? ‘There are some situations where the law is uncertain or unclear and where we would want clarification from a court.’

Advice to those starting out from the head of the Bar? ‘I have always encouraged people to come to the Bar. So, go for it. You have to work hard – there are no short cuts. And there is no such thing as being over-prepared for a hearing. I loved every day of my life at the Bar. It was a good “five minutes” for me all those years ago.’

What will success look like in, say, three years’ time? ‘Success will be that I got as many of the difficult legal issues as right as possible – no lawyer gets them all; that government’s commitment to the rule of law remained just as strong as it is now; that I led a team of people who feel they have enjoyed fulfilling careers; and that I can still walk down the street and no one recognises me.’